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November 18, 2018 - 9:53 am
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Rick, these are good questions and some of which makes us also wonder about Marti Report numbers. However, they are currently the leading recognized source of data for certain years of Ford products. The 1,999 number many people have questioned and can’t be explained as of this time as far as I know. One explanation I believe to be correct but have no proof of is that the 1,999 refers to all special paint orders including the Spoilers, Spoiler IIs, Color Code and other special paint orders.

Now, for the other numbers.As I understand it at the current time, The statement “412 with this paint and trim code” includes those DG cars with the MX paint code and the trim code 4B refers to the blue bench seat interior. The difference in numbers is due to the fact that the Spoilers could be had with any trim interior combination. This includes, black, white and blue all in bench and bucket seat combinations. Therefore, there are additional MX Gurney cars with other trim codes that “could” make up the additional numbers to make the totals the same.

Attached are two Marti Reports. The first is for our Heater Delete DG Spoiler II with blue bench seat trim. Note that it is listed as 1 of 412 with this paint and trim code. Now take a close look at the second Marti Report which is for the DG Spoiler SCJ Gurney that we just sold to Marty Burke. You will note that under trim code it says 1 of 60. This car has a black bucket seat interior. These two different trim codes add up to 472.

I know there are other black interior cars and possibly at least one with a white interior. I also know of other bucket seat interiors in Spoilers. These could easily make the total numbers equal to total production but I do not have the proof of that. These numbers could be obtained by paying Marti Autoworks for special studies and asking the right questions.Marti-Report-spoiler-II.jpgImage Enlarger

martiReport0436.jpgImage Enlarger

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November 18, 2018 - 3:01 pm
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You hit the nail on the head Richard, The numbers you posted for Dan and Cale Spoiler II,”s and W front end units are a guess at best……..I have copies of these Marti Reports you sent before and I know the W front end cars could be had with different interior color and the 390 or 428 engine option.
My point is keep a open mind till we finish going thru all the time line Ford Transport records. You toss out this list of numbers and tell me I need to Clarify the numbers we have listed so far. Thing is you can not Clarify the number you posted.yourself . I knew of a Cale car that was in the Toledo, Ohio area that was a 3 speed, Black interior 390 engine car and we looked at it and it was the real deal.
We will share our finding’s and we will back it up with invoices for all Dan and Cale owners.when we have all the numbers in line!
Rick Ochs
Talladegaguru@gmail.com
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January 16, 2019 - 9:10 am
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A few months back a team member asked me about the front strut rod rubber washer’s on the Talladega’s. He stated his washer were installed with the Con caved side facing the front of the car. I check the Ford shop manual, what the dealership mechanics used to check for correct repair steps. I found the washers were to be installed with the concave side facing the rubber and to be tightened down till the rubber just formed around the back washer. Than I looked at a Talladega we have in shop and what did I find ? The washer on the passenger side was put on from the factory with the concave side facing out and the one on drivers side was put on with the con caved part of the washer facing the rubber ??
Than looking at another Talladega in shop I found both washers with con caved part facing out????.
So looking I found a service technical bulletin dealing with this very subject.
It stated that putting the washer on with concave part to rubber and tighten-ed correctly allows the proper amount of squeeze so the strut will only have proper amount of movement in any direction.
Than it goes on to say if washer is facing outwards this allows the rod to flex side to side and allows pressure to be applied to the center, thus allowing the outside to have more flex.
So in short was the line worker installing the rods and bushing with washers tuning the Tallladega front ends or just in a hurry to get the parts on…….no matter what I feel if you put them back on the way they were from the factory…..they be correct………based on technical bulletin and what we have found that they were put on both ways from factory.
Rick Ochs

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March 15, 2019 - 2:11 pm
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This is a very helpful tip. With Dr. Cyclone making patch panels for Spoiler and Spoiler II’s and AMD making panels for Torino/Fairlane that work on Talladega’s a lot of car,s that would be sent to the crusher can now be restored. The cutting wheel is a well used tool in doing this kind of work. Mr. Frank Durso told me that he is using a 6 inch cut off wheel made by Hilt and he has over 100 cuts out of one wheel. Check them out!

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April 4, 2019 - 10:46 am
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One of the most asked questions we get is about the Black paint used on the hood, cowl and tail panel on the Talladega’s. Now we have told you the factory used PPG Duracryl DDP9381 which is or was an Acrylic Lacquer and Lacquer is outlawed for auto painting in most all of the U S A now.
Now most auto paint supply store’s can get a mix for this 50 year old paint that is a close match in a mix that meets today’s laws to be sprayed. Thing is: this is a NO polish, or wax finish as it was from the factory, so how to we care for it?
Well also in today’s world auto makers are using Matte Finishes in black and other colors on some of the new cars……so paint company’s have had to come up with ways for body shops to match these finishes……as well as how to care for them. Hot Rod Blacks and Satin Clears are a big thing right now.
Now for some time PPG has an on line guide showing you how to care for these new Matte finishes……We have found a lot of the information in this guide can go along with the care of the Low Gloss area’s on Talladega’s as well as other cars with semi gloss hoods and other area’s. The guide can be found at PPGrefinish.com/Mattefinishcarequide
One thing to do when you have your T painted or you paint it make a few test panels with same paint and mix as going on hood ect. that way later if you have a problem with bugs from being on the road or tree sap or bird droppings’s you can test clean up on a panel before the hood ect. Hope all enjoy the summer and have a safe one.
Rick Ochs.

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April 17, 2019 - 8:49 am
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Take Note : One of the thing’s Richard ask’s is if you build a Talladega (ect.) Clone you register the vin of the Clone to help from it being sold later as the real thing. . Now there is more to it than that, in 1968 Federal Law made auto makers stamp vin numbers on which included the engine, trans and other parts of the car. It is against the law to remove these vin numbers from one car and weld them on to a donor body. So if you take and cut the vin numbers from under the fenders from a Talladega and weld them to a 1969 Fairlane/Torino body you can go to jail in most states….it is fraud!……So you have to keep the Vin as given to the body at the factory so the vin on the data plate ( Door on Talladega’s) Vin under fenders and under the windshield all match as to the time she left the factory.
Lets just say Albert Mac Cheese goes out and drags an old race car or Talladega, or Spoiler home and is going to rebuild it….Body is shot, engine is gone, trans is long gone, interior is raged to no end…..but Mac Cheese wants to return it to it’s once like new look…..So Old Albert goes out and gets another body, a motor, trans and interior from a donor car or donor cars to put this unit back on the road……now after much money, time Mac Cheese has his pride and joy done…..so he loads it up and hauls it off to Stony Beach for a Car show. If Albert states the car is Talladega so and so or it is the race car driven by so and so as raced it is fraud and is against Federal Law… He must show the car as the vin assigned to the body as it was built….So if it is a 68 Fairlane body with now a Tallladega front end, rockers ect it must be stated as a 1968 Fairlane cloned to be a 69 Talladega….same with race car’s must be shown as a Clone….and if you get pulled over and the police feel some thing is wrong they can check the numbers and if they are part this and that you better have paper work as to where you obtain all parts and they may make you get an assembly title….or they can take your car until all parts are proven to be not stolen …. So in short if it is a “CLONE” state it!

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April 18, 2019 - 7:40 am
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I absolutely agree Rick. However, the real world issue comes up with major restorations similar to what you describe. It is clearly illegal to remove a VIN and other hidden numbers and attach them to another car. I am sure we have all seen on TV and in the real world, a car which is beyond repair, “restored” with NOS, used and reproduction body parts. These cars can have, over a multi-year process, have virtually 90% or more of the original body parts cut off and replaced but the VIN remained in its original location. It seems to me that the VIN plate remaining attached to the cowl may seem to be a test but how much of the cowl or the entire car must remain “original survivor” to legally remain the original car?

An extreme example is for the VIN to remain attached to a portion of the cowl, the entire car is cut away and another car is slid under the cowl and “replaces” the parts “removed”.

I don’t have the answer but I am curious as to what the legal criteria is for a car to be patched, repaired, and major panels replaced and still be the original car. At what point does a car with major panel replacement no longer become the original car?

Many cars lost the VIN stamped in the front inner fender due to accidents. Some solid cars have had their cowls replaced. If a Talladega has a perfect cowl with VIN but the front clip and door back are destroyed and the car is rebuilt with a solid front and rear parts from another car, can it still be a Talladega? I think you will get folks that say yes and others that say no, what do you all think? Any attorneys out there that want to weigh in?

There have been many stories about rare cars/race cars with numbers stamped into different body parts. These parts are eventually sold to different parties and discovered by different restorers, sometimes from different states or countries. The car is rebuilt from these parts with numbers on them. They all get legal titles based on the numbers stamped into their respective parts. Later the different cars show up for sale and there are now multiple cars found with the same “legal” VIN! Strange but true.

Be honest!

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April 18, 2019 - 11:34 am
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Richard,
Being in the Auto Restoration field for more years than I can count…..I have crossed this path many times. Take first time:
We had a 60’s Ford truck (pick-up) we were to restore. Now we swapped the cab, box, and fenders, fenders were new old stock, Cab and box were from a yard out of state…..the new laws as to vin swapping were just coming in effect in this state……now a visit from a officer from the Michigan BAR which for years we have been registered with called us out on the Vin numbers. Why cab did not match hidden numbers on frame and front section. We were told we need to have it checked by state police to make sure cab was not stolen and than we would be given a sticker BAR coded and than an assemble title would be issued…….that was way it went down….now I know of a Hemi car that sold…..latter on new owner was to have it restored….after blasting it was found hidden Vin numbers had been cut out of the body and Hemi Vin welded in….new owner had seller charged and the swapper’s when to jail for a time. Now you watch on TV they have a hit Mustang in front and they cut front clip off at fire wall and weld in a new front Apron ect…that changes the vin under the fenders…now they do not match door and under cowl if there. What are they to do…..if the car is check it can be impounded….The builder must keep a log of parts changed and show at any time paper work for parts bought and if they are in this state a BAR member they must keep that paper work for 5 to 7 years. All this came about because of company’s wanting to find a way to stop auto theft and the selling of clones made up to be one thing when not the real deal.
Here is one just how this can get…..on newer GM cars they have a Vin number stamped in the rocker, man goes and buys a re-builder to fix and sell…..to make things easier he cut rocker on damaged side sections in rocker fixes damage and is ready to sell car….Now he goes thru police to get title cleaned from a re-builder to a real Michigan title police check Vin numbers and vin on right side does not match in part vin on left side….NO Title….it took a lot of paper work and going thru different offices of the law to finally get title clean……
MY point is this just a warring that states needing more money are really giving this area a hit….if you are just repairing a project it is kool but if you re-boding a car….check your state laws and sell it for what it really is if it a repaired real deal fine…but if it is sectioned or re-body-ed in any way state it …..it is cloned or a body made to be what it did not start out from the factory to be.

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April 23, 2019 - 9:07 am
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Just to point out a bit more on this subject….there is a TV show on Motor Trend called Auto Biography. Two young men talk about and tell stories about special cars and their history. last Saturday night they were talking about Movie cars that had come up missing ……One was the Chevelle Conv that was in the Pulp Fiction movie…it had been missing for years when a man hunting for it found it to be in a auto shop owners …..ownership with different Vin. number tag’s. They pulled the bumpers to find the hidden Vin. numbers and proved it was the missing Pulp Fiction movie car. The owner who had traded a Ford for it had restored it and he owned an auto repair shop with-out knowing the numbers had been changed.
Thing is owner who owned it at time it went missing got paid by his insurance company and now that the car had been found the insurance company wanted the car back….thus the current owner was out all the work and money he had put into the restoration plus his Ford coupe he traded to get the conv……Sad!….

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April 28, 2019 - 5:38 pm
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This is a much needed part for you men or ladies rebuilding your FE engine. In the July 2019 Car Craft magazine they our rebuilding a 427 FE and they point out Roush has come out with a one piece rear main seal for the FE engines. Has any one try-ed this piece?
Thanks,
Rick.

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  1. HALOWE says:

    My opinion is that if it is on a Marti Report and/or a 999, clearly the pins were factory options. Neither of these reports reflect dealer installed options.

    Oddly, my T has the hood modified on the underside bracing structure (but not cut out on the top of the hood) for a hood pin ON ONLY ONE SIDE! I need to compare to my two ’69 Cobra hoods that have factory hood pins to see what they look like on the underneath. They are stored about 100 miles away from me, so it will be a few weeks before I have that opportunity.

    Also oddly enough, my ’70 Cobra that I’ve owned since ’79 has factory push-and-twist hood pins (standard, not an option), but the radiator support only has a receiver on one side! The other side has dimples where the two holes should have been drilled to mount the receiver, but it was never done.

    • Carl Sharp says:

      As you can see from the Talladega Forum, on this site, we really don’t believe that hood pins were an option on any of the production Talladegas (at least from the factory). I refer you to the response by Rich Ochs (and others) on this topic which has been addressed pretty thoroughly in the forum. The instructions to the factory were very clear that these cars were NOT to get hood pins.

      As to the validity of Ford’s 999 reports, and the Marti reports (especially the early ones), I wouldn’t be too confident in either of them. Both have contained numerous “major” errors. For example, Ford’s 999 report often refers to our Talladegas as Mustangs. Likewise, all of the early Marti reports assumed that the same rules that applied to Mustangs also applied to our Talladegas. (Not true.)

      • ROB HUNT says:

        I agree the Ford 999 reports were very vague. I had a 4.30 Drag pack car I tried to document back in 2000. The 999 said it was an R code with optional rear axle lol.

  2. ron woshner says:

    looks like there may be a cyclone gt- 500 on e bay.

  3. christian sherman says:

    Just picked up a Gurney!!! Barn fresh!!! LITERALLY

  4. Terry Butler says:

    Why does the article say the bumper was flipped upside down?

    • Carl Sharp says:

      Mostly, because the author made a mistake… It was not flipped. It was sectioned on both sides, v-d in the middle, and filled on the ends.

  5. Greg Klinke says:

    Trying to repaint my headlight bezels and front grill black. Took some “before” pictures, but you know how that goes. Was wondering if someone could take some close-up pics so I can get it painted correctly. Thanks

  6. Randolph Dolensek says:

    Hi Everyone,I am going to have my Dan Spoiler II painted & the body shop wants something to show him the paint design.Is there anything drawn that I can give him? Thanks Randy

  7. Randolph Dolensek says:

    My Dan is getting painted today! Pretty exciting after having it for 9 years.

  8. Mike Hendricks says:

    I have a 69 Torino GT I converted to a Talladega back in 1975. I bought the car in 1975. I had a customer of mine who owned who had an orginal T, and wrecked it by a deer running in front of him. He removed the front end, and put a Torino front end on it. He gave me the front end for free. The only piece I had to replace was the left front fender. I went to my local Ford dealer, and bought one. They ordered it from Ford. It has H/M stamped on the fender lip. I believe it cost around $250.00 at the time.
    I still have the orginal fender which was not all that bad. Back them, it was cheaper to buy a new fender, than to repair.
    I still own the car, and deive it in the summers. I have the car apart noe, and am repainting it with Whimbleton white. I put in it an AOD transmission for better fuel. The engine is a 351, which rebuilt in the 80’s. It is in excellant shape, as I always garaged it. I repersent it as a clone, not as a real T. 99% of people do not know of a Talladega, never heard of them.
    Ihave owner Talladega’s over the years, and have sold them, all except for my clone. It was always less expensive to drive. I enjoy it.

    • Richard says:

      Mke, thank you for your comments. Interesting story on the Talladega front end. By chance do you know the VIN of the Talladega that got the Torino nose? What city as it in and what color was it?

      As for your car I encourage you to Register it in our Talladega Registry as a Clone. We already have one clone Spoiler II registered. It hels insure the no one in the future will try to sell the car s the real deal. I also want to thank you for becoming a Team Member and invite you to bring your car to any of our Talladega Family Reunion events or other activities.

      • Mike Hendricks says:

        Richard, the orginial T, where I got the front end, was Royal Maroon. I do not have the orginal VIN. The city is Fort Wayne, Indiana. I remember seeing the T at a local Ford dealer in New Haven, Indiana. The dealer at that time was Delagrange Ford in New Haven. They sold the car new in, if I remember right, late 1969, around September, or October.The car was around Ft. Wayne for a couple years, and the orginal ownerof the car decided to quit driving it, because the water pump was getting noisy, if I remember right. It sat behind a local bowling alley for quiet a long time. I tried to buy it, and he was not sure if he wanted to sell. I checked with him for several months, to no avail. I stopped in one night, bought him a beer, and he said to see him tomorrow. I went to hopefully buy the car, and he sold it to a customer of mine. Not sure why, but it was gone. The guy who bought it was only 16, maybe 17. I knew what was going to happen, and it did. First a deer, then after he repaired it, he lost controll and crashed it for the final time. The insurance co. totaled it, they halled it off, and sold it for junk would be my guess. He did not know where it went, and I did not persue it. Coulda, shoulda, wooda?? The price we had talked about was $2500. at the time. I lost track of him over the years. The last time I saw him he had another 428 Cobra, 69 Torino. But this has been 74-75, so it has been long gone.
        I have, and will look again for any I D on the parts. The only numbers/letters are date codes on some parts.
        I can send pictures of the orginal fender, in it orginal color, with white stripe. Any other parts and the entire car I could send pix also.
        I will register my car as a clone in the registry, so it cannot be declaired a factory T. I will look foreward to joining you in future events, and reunions. Any other info I can think of I will supply. Any other items you would like to know, just ask.
        Thank you,

        Mike

  9. Joseph Trapani says:

    Hello everyone, im looking for Rick Ores site and cant find it, I talked to Rick about selling my T 7 years ago, and just count do it, well im 55 now and had it in heated garage since 1976 when I bought it, drove it 4000 miles since 76, 192193, I had some nice offers on ot since it is just about original as I bought it , and runs well, drivers seat split just like I bought it, I wanted to call Rick to give it a good home, it needs paint but paint is good for 40 years old, it is very special to me and is a very rare find today and back in 1976 when I bought it,has stock ex on it yet,loltrunk mat spare,Funny thing about the car is LW Miller II I bought it from, and his son LW III married Kelly Eharnhart , I bought it from Wayne LWs Dad so Wayne could put Brett Bodine in his first Modified ride, This car has History I Cant tell you on the internet!As Brett or Jeff Bodine about it
    I want a good home for it I bought it in 76 , and still has the life in it to last another 40 years,one solid original car.
    My father and I took it to Talladega reunion in 1989 and have lots of pics of it there , dam thing looks the same as it did back then and runs just as well
    Joe T
    And Wayne will vogue for me,

  10. Joseph Trapani says:

    im ready in the next month to sell my T and will set up a pic account if anyone is interested,
    ive known the car since 1971, bought it in 1976, just changed Title from my father name to mine Dads 80 years young to me, my Dad gave me the money to buy a car when I grad from HS, in 1976, T had 41700 on T and has 48522 miles on it now, same shap as I bought it, a good 3-to a 2
    You will not find a better T to make your own,
    jtrapani@rocketmail.com, ask Rick Orrs
    now do I ebay it?
    Really?
    What a investment
    Joe T

  11. Mark says:

    I found a Cale Yarborough special in va beach in a back yard I was wondering if it is registered or if any body knows of it

    • Richard says:

      I would be happy to help you but I need the VIN to find any info on it. It will be located on the dashboard just behind the windshield on the driver side.

  12. Scott Springer says:

    my T on ebay

  13. Joe Machado says:

    I have been collecting serial numbers since the 69 Daytona was new. I have a serial number book for both Talladega’s and SpoilerII’s. I also collected the other 3 cars: Daytona, SuperBird and the 69 500. I would need a specific individual to send the info to and they have the understanding that the info is free to your members-events. I owned a Daytona 18 years. I also owned 3 69 500’s. One of the 500’s was THE Public Relations car, the HEMI 500 in red with white interior and white stripe. The owner that restored the HEMI changed the interior to black. WRONG. My Daytona was one of 2 Daytonas used as Dodge Performance Show Cars.

  14. Richard Wager says:

    subject (how many talladegas) Has anyone seen youtube American muscle car #S02E03 ford fairlane gt and Talladega it runs for 22:35 min. total, at 11:16 to 11:27 min. Ralph Moody states that less than not even 500 were made.
    Interesting to say the least and kinda dispels the 754 number wonder if that helps with anyone’s research

  15. gerald hege says:

    I have a question in regards to part numbers C7ZZ-9B445-C and C9ZZ-9B445-A
    ( Exhaust Air supply Manifold Assembly for 1969 Talladega 428. Mine are leaking and i was wondering if it is possible to find a replacement or should I remove the system or plug off the rails?

  16. sven busch says:

    Hello there, did someone know where I can get some lowering parts for my spoiler?

  17. David Miller says:

    I am looking for the correct linkage for my 390 4brl. When I got the car it had a cheap after market carb and a Mickey mouse cable system. I have tried several vendors to no avail. Hoping maybe some one has one on a spare car or engine, at this point even a good picture with measurements would work and I will fabricate the rest. Thanks Munch

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